If you want to be traditionally published, you need to attract an agent and a publisher. To get an agent and publisher, you need an amazing book proposal.
For an author, a book proposal is like a business plan and resume all in one. It communicates all the important information about you, your book, and your platform. If the proposal is weak, it ends the conversation, torpedoing any chance to fix it.
Back when I was a literary agent, I got a steady stream of book proposals and most of them were not great. I had a list of stock rejections that I sent in response to most proposals that came across my desk.
So how do you make your book proposal stand out from the competition? And what needs to be included?
That is what we are going to talk about in this episode of the Christian Publishing Show, the podcast for writers who want to honor God with their writing.
We have a guest on the show today who is going to walk us through the elements of a great book proposal and teach us how to make your book proposal irresistible.
She is a writing coach, author, speaker, and podcast host. She leverages over three decades of experience in the writing and publishing world to serve and support writers looking for input and confidence to establish and advance their careers.
Ann Kroeker, welcome to the Christian Publishing Show!
Why Do I Need a Book Proposal?
Ann: Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here.
Thomas: Do authors still need book proposals in 2022? Isn’t that an artifact of an older time?
Ann: Oh, how I wish it were true. No, you still need to put together a book proposal. This document will not only benefit the decision-maker (an agent or editor), but it will help the author as well.
Thomas: Even if you plan to go indie, the act of putting together a book proposal is really beneficial. When I was working on my very first book proposal, I was a college student. At the same time, I was taking a course on entrepreneurship. Our big project at the end of the semester was to put together a business plan.
As I was working on both the book proposal and the business plan, I realized they were almost identical. A book proposal is effectively a business plan, minus the budget, plus sample chapters. Almost every other section lines up. Even if you’re not seeking funding for your business, the act of putting together a business plan is really valuable because it forces you to ask yourself tough questions and to solve problems before they become more serious issues.
Ann: Yes, your proposal helps to clarify the content. It brings to light some of the things that would be otherwise unexpected later.
For example, you’re going to have to join with the publisher to market this book. So, you’re going to need a marketing plan. It sounds so “businessy.” A lot of creative people do not want to think about that. They just want to do the creative work. They just want to enjoy the creative process.
But the book proposal reminds them that they will be in partnership with both an agent and a publisher. You need to contribute something to the partnership. You’re not only bringing a good idea, but also great writing, a marketing plan, and a platform. You need to prove that you can get your work in front of readers.
What’s the Difference Between Platform and Marketing?
Thomas: When I was an agent, I would often go to the marketing plan or platform section of a book proposal first. I wanted proof of what the author had done in the past and was currently doing to grow their platform. Not just a promise of what they planned to do in the future.
I wanted to see that they had been successful in the past and that they were competent in marketing their book. Don’t tell me you plan to be interviewed on Focus on the Family, for example, unless you already have connections with their organization and they’ve already scheduled you for an interview.
Platform includes all the things you are currently doing or have done in the past, whereas your marketing plan is what you intend to do in the future. It’s okay to say “I plan to pitch Focus on the Family” in your marketing plan.
Ann: I think some of the things we do to build platform now can become marketing efforts later. Clients are sometimes confused about this at first; but as they begin to build their platform, they see that those same activities can be used to market the book.
It’s interesting. Every agent or editor looks at a different part of the book proposal first. They all go through the material of the proposal in a different order.
Thomas: Typically, the agent will go first to the section that’s closest to their core set of expertise. That’s where it often becomes the easiest to judge. And then the other sections become tie breakers. I came from a marketing background, so I would go to the marketing section first.
I would help my clients separate the marketing section from the platform section. The number of people you have on your mailing list would go under platform, but the fact that you plan to use your mailing list to sell books would go under the marketing section.
Ann: So, after you look at the marketing plan, what do you look at next?
Thomas: Since I used to build websites for authors, I would often look at their website next, to see if they’re blowing smoke or not. I knew how to tell if a website was popular. I could pull the Alexa score to see if the website was getting any visitors. I would be able to tell if they knew what they were doing.
I could tell a lot about an author by looking at their website. I could tell if their website was optimized. I knew how to work through the smoke. I think most agents are bamboozled by beautiful websites because they don’t know if a website is popular. They can’t tell how much traffic it’s getting.
It’s not so important how beautiful your website is. What’s important is whether or not your website is connecting with readers.
Back to proposals though, we should probably talk about how fiction proposals and nonfiction proposals are different.
How Are Fiction Book Proposals Different From Nonfiction Book Proposals?
Ann: If you are a novelist, you need to write the entire book. It needs to be complete. It needs to be polished. You need to have a synopsis, which can be really challenging to write. You need to have a tight, alluring hook that can capture the attention of an agent or editor.
An agent might ask for a partial manuscript of your book first. Then they may ask for the full manuscript, and then the book proposal. Everything has to be ready to go.
But with a nonfiction book proposal, you don’t actually have to write the book first. In fact, it’s actually recommended that you don’t. Because your book may evolve.
Thomas: The agent might say to you, “This is a really great idea. But I looked at your table of contents. I know a publisher who is looking for a book on this topic. If you tweak these chapters just a bit, I think your book will be just what they are looking for.” There’s some negotiation on what goes into the book.
But for fiction, especially if you’re a first-time novelist, you need to demonstrate that you know how to stick the landing. You need to demonstrate that you have the discipline and the hustle to write a complete book. And if you haven’t finished your novel, you really have to work on that before you start pitching publishers.
Whereas for nonfiction, it’s more about building your platform, connecting with your audience, and establishing your authority and credibility. It’s a very different process.
Ann: And you’re still going to have to turn in sample chapters. There’s some disagreement on how many chapters you’ll be requested to include, but those chapters are part of the book proposal. The sample chapters are where your writing will really shine.
What Three Questions Should Your Book Proposal Answer?
Ann: Your book proposal needs to answer three questions that are on the minds of every agent:
- “Why this book?” —That’s your premise, your big idea.
- “Why now?” —Is your book marketable? Is it salable in today’s world and climate?
- “Why this author?” — This is where your platform comes into play. Can you get this book in front of people? Are they already interested in the topic based on things you’re already saying and writing in the world? Can you write in a compelling way? Do you have the experience and knowledge to make you an expert in this area?
Thomas: If you’re writing fiction, when it comes to answering the question “Why now?” I would encourage you to include a discussion about video games and movies in your book proposal. Choose games or movies that have similar themes, settings, or tropes to the book that you’re writing.
Sometimes trends in books become trends in movies later. But often it’s the other way around. Video-game themes are often on the cutting edge, and then they make it into movies, TV shows, and eventually novels.
It depends on your target audience. Amish books didn’t originate with video games. But it’s important to know what’s hot. Publishers are trying to chase trends. They don’t want to publish a book that was popular 20 years ago.
Comparable Books or Book Comps
Ann: Let’s talk about book comps. This section of your proposal can have several different names: “Comparable Books,” “Comparative Books,” “Competitive Books,” or “Complimentary Books.” Basically, you need to include a list of books that are comparable to yours. And then you need to indicate how your book is similar but different.
It’s important to include recent books in the book-comparison section of your book proposal. If your related books are all books from back in the day, publishers will think that idea is not selling well now.
Your book comps should be within the last two to three years, if possible. If you have a book with an evergreen topic, you could maybe include a few older books that are still selling well.
Thomas: If you’re having a hard time with the comparable books section, this is actually a red flag that you’re not reading enough. If you want to be an author, you need to be a reader; and you need to be reading in your genre. Don’t be that author who says, “I’m not going to read in my genre because I don’t want to borrow ideas from anyone else.”
Actually, reading extensively in your genre is the only way to guarantee you will not accidentally steal someone’s idea. It’s quite common for more than one person to have the same idea at the same time.
If your book is going to be similar to another book, you need to do it on purpose and not by accident. Which means you need to be reading the books in your genre.
Ann: Absolutely. I would recommend taking good notes while you read because you may want to use a quote from the book to support something that you’re saying in your own book. This is a way to bring the other author into your conversation, and it pulls you into their conversation. You’re adding to a chorus of voices.
I had a client once who suggested that we are all part of a choir. We’re all adding our own music to the song and harmonizing together. When you think of writing a book in this way, it is less about competition and more about complementing each other.
The only way you’re going to know how your book is similar or different is by reading the books in your genre. If you take good notes, you won’t accidentally plagiarize their work. You won’t accidentally use the same verbiage in your own project. If you use a quote, you’ll need to give attribution and use citations.
Thomas: Don’t look at these similar books as your enemies. When I wrote my own book, I had a relationship with the author of the closest competitive book. I had her as a guest on my radio show. She emailed me after my blog post went viral, and we exchanged emails.
I reached out to her and asked if she’d be willing to write the forward for my book. She agreed. So now, she’s not a competitor anymore. Every copy of my book has her name, Debra Fileta, right there on the front. When you look up my book on Amazon, you can click on her name and see her similar book.
We had the attitude that we were on the same team. We weren’t worried that someone would want to buy one of our books at the exclusion of the other.
So, to answer the question “Why this book?” you need to know why your book is different from the other books in your genre. You have to add something to the conversation. If you’re just rehashing what’s already been said, then there’s not a compelling reason for your book to exist.
Ann: You’re adding to that chorus of voices. You’re adding the harmony. You’re not just singing the same tune that somebody else is singing.
Thomas: This is also true in fiction. Readers of fiction read more than one author and more than one book in the genres they love.
Let’s imagine the universe of Amish books has only three authors. Two of those authors are friends. They’re recommending each other’s books, writing blurbs for each other, and promoting each other.
The other author stands aside and decides she doesn’t want to interact with them. She thinks they’re her enemies. Who do you think is going to sell more books? Of course, it will be the two authors who are working together and sending their fans to each other’s books.
Our real competition is Netflix, not other authors. The more people read, the more people want to read.
Ann: It’s important to get to know people. If you meet another author at a conference, exchange email addresses. Go follow them on social media. You can start having these conversations and building relationships early on in your career. Let them know you’re not trying to impede on their turf. You’re trying to add to the conversation. Thank them for writing a great book.
How to Structure a Book Proposal
Thomas: Let’s talk about the other elements of a book proposal. There are different ways of structuring a book proposal, so this is not the canonical way. Some agents will have their own guide. If you really want to be represented by a particular agent, then use that agent’s guide for your proposal.
Ann: Many agents will offer a book-proposal template on their website.
Thomas: That’s right. If you want a particular agent, like Steve Laube, for example, you can go to his website and download his book proposal guide. He also has a course on book proposals that you can purchase for $10 from The Christian Writers Institute.
Create a Working Book Title
For most book proposal templates, the first part is the hook or short pitch. What is the hook, and how do we make it pop?
Ann: I’m going to back up just a bit. Actually, the very first hook is your working title and subtitle on the cover page. Not only will your title attract future readers, but it will also grab the attention of the decision makers: the agent or editor. The title must be intriguing and also give a sense of what your book is going to be about.
You hint at the premise and the promise in the title.
Thomas: Even though the publisher will possibly change the title, you still need to come up with a good title and subtitle for your book.
Ann: I always recommend including a section with alternate titles and subtitles. This shows the publisher that you have other good ideas, and you’re also not stuck in your ways.
Thomas: When I was an agent, I would often look at an author’s alternate title list and realize that one of their other ideas was much better. I knew which titles would be able to capture a publisher’s attention, so I recommended the author swap titles.
A list of alternate titles will give the publisher and agent something to work with. Even if your first title doesn’t get picked, you can still have some input into which title you want for your book.
Ann: That’s a good reason to have someone review your proposal before sending it to agents. It’s hard to be objective about your own ideas, especially when you love your title.
The Hook
Ann: The title is the first thing that will catch someone’s attention. Next is the hook section. I encourage my clients to use Rob Eagar’s approach to writing a hook. He recommends a “What if?” style hook, both for fiction and nonfiction.
You frame the hook like a question. For example, “What if I could reduce screen time for my kids, using three easy steps, in one month or less?” You use the “What if?” framing to imply what the book will be about.
Next, you should include a one-sentence, one-paragraph, and one-page statement about your book, as succinctly as possible. This format, recommended by Ryan Holiday, works fiction or nonfiction. This practice will help you know what your book is about.
What to Include in Your Proposal Email
Thomas: Agents and editors will read your summaries before they read the rest of the proposal. Most agents prefer that you send the proposal as an attachment to an email. This email is the first impression you give to an agent, before they even see your proposal.
Your subject line and email text need to capture the agent’s attention and convince him to open your email and read your proposal. You can include your short hook in the email itself. It doesn’t tell them everything, but it needs to make them curious.
Ann: We call it a hook for a reason. You want to hook them and draw them in. They should read your hook and want to know more. The hook will help your book stand out from the other books and proposals in the stack.
Your hook does a lot of heavy lifting for your whole proposal. You’re presenting the premise and the promise, along with an indication of your audience.
A Free Course on Creating a Catchy Hook for Your Book
Ann: The process of writing a succinct, catchy hook is difficult. I have a free course that can help you do this. It’s called “Craft Your Book’s Big Idea.”
The template is simple:
This book helps __(reader)_ learn how to __________ so they can ________.
You won’t necessarily copy and paste this sentence into your proposal, but it can help you start thinking.
First you need to answer the question “Who does your book help?” It’s important to narrow down who your audience is. Your book isn’t for everyone.
Next, ask yourself how your book will help the reader learn how to do something or think differently in some way. That’s the promise of your book.
Lastly, you’ll explain the reason your reader needs this skill set or knowledge: “So they can ….” How will it change their life? How will their life be better because they read your book?
As a bonus, you can add “by________” to the end of the sentence template. This answers the question “How?” How will you accomplish the task of teaching a skill or imparting new knowledge to your reader?
For example:
This book helps parents of elementary school kids
learn how to limit screen time for their family,
so they can have a closer relationship with each other and with the Lord,
by implementing my proven four-step process of weaning and reorienting.
Thomas: You want to prove that you have a specific way to help your reader and not just make them feel guilty.
Let’s look at Dave Ramsey, for example.
This book will help you get out of debt
so that you can experience the freedom of a debt-free lifestyle,
by following Dave Ramsey’s six baby steps.
Get access to Ann’s free course, Craft Your Book’s Big Idea.
Thomas: I also have a worksheet, but it’s for novelists. It will help novelists find the most interesting element of their novel. In my worksheet, you’ll write different pitches for each aspect of your novel: setting, protagonist, antagonist, etc. Then you’ll be able to compare them and decide which is the most intriguing aspect of your novel.
As James Rubart says, “It’s hard to read the label when you’re standing inside the bottle.”
Many novelists have a hard time narrowing down one aspect of their story that’s the best. They think everything is great. But this exercise will help you narrow down the pointiest bit of your book to include in your hook.
Download Thomas’s Worksheet Here.
Write a Blog Post Before Writing Your Book
Ann: Another tip is to explore, articulate, and validate your book idea before writing your book. Ryan Holiday, in his book Perennial Seller says, “A book should be an article before it’s a book and a dinner conversation before it’s an article. See how things go, before going all in.”
Thomas: I could not agree more. That’s exactly what I did with my book. I had multiple conversations with my target audience about their frustrations with courtship. I got a really good understanding of what was working and not working. One million people ended up reading my blog post on the topic.
And then I used the blog post as the basis for my book. I continued to receive feedback from my audience throughout the whole process, and I was able to refine my idea even further.
Ann: Exactly. And you were building a platform. You were getting in front of the right readers before the book came out. They were already primed to want that book because they were already listening to what you had to say.
They were intrigued by your story. They wanted to think differently. They wanted to go deeper. And that’s what a book can do. Books can take readers much deeper into a topic than articles can.
Write the Bio Section of Your Book Proposal
Thomas: We’ve talked about the title, the hook, the platform, the launch plan, and the book comps.
The next big part of your book proposal is the bio. You don’t you just copy and paste the bio off your website. What should we put here?
Ann: The bio section is where we answer the question, “Why this author?” The platform will begin to answer this question, but the bio is where you prove that you are the perfect author to write this book.
What credentials or life experience do you have that qualify you to write this book? What is it that positions you uniquely as the ideal author of this book? You’ll include things like bylines, previous publications, compilations you’ve contributed to, etc.
Thomas: And you need to craft a custom bio specifically for this book. Because you are a complex person. You have many facets, right? You’re a son, or a daughter, maybe you’re a husband, or a wife, or a parent. You might be a boss, or a pastor, or a nurse. You have many identities that are all true of you.
When writing your bio, you need to decide which aspects of your identity grant credibility for this particular topic and this particular book. You don’t need to include all your roles and identities.
Ann: It could be some training that you’ve had. It could be your education. It could be your life story. You’ve lived it out and proven that your ideas work. It could be a coaching program that you do to that gives evidence that your framework or your process actually produces fruit.
Thomas: For fiction, your credibility is a little bit different. Obviously, you don’t have to be Amish to write an Amish story. For novelists, you need to prove that you are a good writer—that your stories are fun to read. You could list awards you’ve won or other proofs that people want to read what you’ve written.
Ann: If you’re a first-time novelist, then agents and editors don’t expect you to have other books or publications listed. But maybe you’ve been vetted by another editor through a literary journal or maybe you’ve won an award or a short story contest. This type of evidence shows that another editor and audience has read your work and found it worthy of attention.
Another thing you could do is to show that your short-story lead magnet is popular. You could share the number of people that have downloaded your short story. You could share a screen shot of people’s comments and how much they loved your story.
Thomas: It really does make a difference. If you can prove that say, 10,000 people signed up for your email list to read your short stories, a publisher will be impressed. They’ll know that you have an audience of people who’ve read your fiction and are ready to buy your book when it comes out. This strategy is especially effective if the short stories are in the same story world as your novel.
The Endorsement Section of Your Book Proposal
Thomas: Next let’s talk about endorsements. Endorsements are key, especially for nonfiction, but for fiction as well. When I was an agent, it was helpful to look through the endorsements section of the proposal. A good endorsement list breaks the endorsements into several different categories.
1. Those who’ve already agreed to endorse your book.
2. People you know personally who will likely endorse your book, but you haven’t asked them yet.
3. People you have no connection with but you would like them to endorse your book, if possible.
Ann: If your book gets picked up, your publisher will have their own connections. They might know people who would be a good fit to endorse your book.
If you’re targeting an agent in a particular agency, you could look at their book list to see who they have represented in the past. Then you could add the names of those authors that might be a good fit for your book. This shows you’ve done your homework. You would, of course, change those names if you’re pitching to a different agency.
Thomas: Make the bait fit the fish.
Ann: Sometimes new authors may feel like they don’t know anyone famous. What would you tell them to do?
Thomas: We have an episode about getting endorsements on my other podcast, Novel Marketing.
How to Get Endorsements for Your Book
The first step is to start doing the work to meet people at conferences. It’s the same advice I give my toddlers: If you want to make a friend, you have to be a friend.
This is difficult for a lot of authors. They’ve been at home, hiding and scared. They don’t want to be seen out in the world. But the endorsement list is evidence that you’ve done the work to make the connections and that you’ve earned the respect of your peers.
Do your peers respect you? Do you have peers? Do you even know who your peers are? There are two different skill sets. First you have to get good at writing, but then you have to become known as a good writer.
If no one has ever read your writing, or if you’ve never met another author in your life, it’s a real challenge to get these endorsements. And it will be difficult to sell your book because people need to know who you are and they need to have heard of you.
How to Connect With Other Authors
Thomas: Attending conferences has been the classic way of getting to know other authors. The new way would be to join online communities like www.authormedia.social.
And I know you have a program as well, Ann, where people are interacting. They get to know each other on your Zoom calls every month. In some ways, this method of getting to know other authors is more efficient because you’re not spending thousands of dollars to fly all over the country and attend writers conferences.
Learn more about connecting with Ann here.
Ann: Like you said, Thomas, you don’t want to only connect with people who are famous. You want to build relationships with your peers as well. When you meet someone for the first time, you never know if that acquaintance will turn into a friendship. And you never know if that author who is a peer right now will one day go on to be famous.
Just be nice to everybody and have fun connecting because you never know where these relationships will lead.
Early on in my career, I was part of two online organizations. The relationships I formed in those communities continue to this day. These people would be very well known to your listeners. And I can say I’m friends with them because I made those relationships early, when we were all nobodies.
Thomas: When you meet other authors at the early conferences, you’re all nobodies together. It’s like you’re all seniors, graduating from college or high school. You never know what your classmates will go on to accomplish. Don’t be a jerk to that new author who just showed up. He may be on a rocket to success.
Ann: Here’s another small piece of advice for making connections. If you are at a conference and the speaker asks for questions, be sure to ask a question! Granted, this isn’t a pitch session. And you don’t want to try to prove that you’re famous or that you know more than they do. Take notes during the lecture and think of a legitimate question to ask that you don’t already know the answer to.
And then the speaker can put your face with the question. This shows you were listening and interested in what they had to say, not just trying to get close to them. Then if you go up afterwards to ask a follow-up question, you can make a more lasting connection. You’re not pushing your proposal on them or handing them a business card. You’re just trying to make a connection. Then if you do query them later, maybe they’ll remember you.
Thomas: And all the other students in the class all turned to look at you, and they now associate you with that question. Now they know a little bit more about you because you asked the question, and they have something to talk to you about.
And if you’re feeling nervous, don’t worry. Everyone else at a writers conference is just as shy as you are. There may be those five outgoing, bubbly people; but everybody else is an introverted writer like you. You’re all in the same boat together.
Sample Chapters for Your Book Proposal
Thomas: Next, let’s talk about sample chapters.
Ann: When you write your sample chapters, you may find that you want to go back and change some of the previous portions of your book proposal. That’s okay. Your proposal is a fluid document that can change over time.
Just be open to the evolution of this document. Let it be the dynamic document that it is. Until you send it out, it can keep changing and evolving to reflect your own changing and evolving ideas.
Thomas: I’d recommend waiting till the last minute to add the sample chapters to your proposal document. If your book lives in software like Scrivener, you don’t want to keep going back and forth to edit both versions of your chapters. Just copy and paste your sample chapters into the Word document at the very end.
Ann: I often get asked about formatting for the sample chapters. The sample chapters should be double-spaced, one-inch margins, Times New Roman font. The earlier sections of the proposal don’t have to be double-spaced, but the chapters do.
Table of Contents for a Book Proposal
Thomas: The final section we need to talk about is the table of contents. This is not as important for fiction as it is for nonfiction. The table of contents indicates if the author has structured the book in a good way. Typically, the early chapters are the “Why” chapters, and the later chapters are the “How” chapters, although, this formula doesn’t work for every book.
Most authors know they need a good title for their book. But did you know that you also need good chapter titles? Your chapter titles need to be sales pitches for that chapter. You need to convince somebody that this chapter is worth 20 minutes of your life.
Ann: We’ve mentioned that for a nonfiction book proposal, authors don’t need to have the entire book written—only the three sample chapters. But many authors don’t realize that you actually do need to develop a plan for the entire book.
This can be really difficult for people who are “pantsers,” who write by the seat of their pants. They write their way into an idea. Well, now you’re telling them they need to be a plotter. They need to outline their idea and determine the sequence in which the reader will need the information. This is difficult for them.
I think this process of developing the book is one of the most valuable reasons to create a book proposal. Even if you go on to self-publish, you’ve done the work to develop the idea.
For the annotated table of contents, you need to create a summary of each one of your chapters. Include the main points and takeaways for that chapter.
Writing the chapter summaries will be very helpful. It will save you a lot of time in the long run. You’re kind of writing the book without writing the book. You’re developing the ideas for your book ahead of time.
It’s a good idea to get feedback on your chapter outline and summaries before submitting it to an agent. Maybe a writing coach or critique partner could help you develop your ideas and make sure you’re mapping out your book in a logical sequence. Each chapter must have its own reason for being included in the book. How is each chapter different from the next? You want to make sure you’re not overlapping ideas.
Thomas: Your table of contents will change as you write your book and develop your idea. But you need to put in the work at the beginning. It needs to be compelling.
And I agree that it’s important to have another set of eyes on your work. You don’t want to get your first feedback from the agent who’s now rejected you.
Coaching for Writers
Thomas: Ann, I know you offer coaching for writers. You look over people’s proposals and give them feedback. Tell us a little bit about what you offer.
Ann: You can find my services and courses at www.AnnKroeker.com/everything. You’ll see all the ways you can work with me, both free and paid.
At the top of the page, you’ll find my free course, Craft Your Book’s Big Idea. And that’s where you’ll find the template we discussed earlier. It’s a three-day, evergreen course that will challenge you to hone in on that big idea.
And if you keep scrolling down on that page, you can find out more about the platform membership and also the book-proposal program.
I do work with people one-on-one, but I also have prerecorded trainings where I walk them through a proven process that has helped my clients sell a lot of books.
Thomas: Ann Kroeker, thank you so much for joining us today on the Christian Publishing Show.
Ann: Thanks for having me. It was a treat.
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Credits
The Christian Publishing Show is a production of Author Media. This episode’s audio was edited by William Umstattd, the producer was Laurie Christine, and I am Thomas Umstattd, Jr. your host.